I confess that both my current cars were bought new.  The Fiat, which is getting sold after two years, has lost 40% of its value in two and a half years - small cars fair fairly well. In absolute money terms, that is £4700 for 27 months motoring. Total maintenance bill in that time is £200, Road tax about £300 over the period. That adds up to £5200, or about 20p per mile.

The last used car I purchased was a Volve XC70. £40k new, I bought it at 6 months old for £25k. One year later, I sold it for £12k. So buying nearly new didnt solve the problem.

The Mercedes is now 15 months old, I have no idea as to its value currently. Probably, the depreciation is lowish.

Back to Les' point. You can motor perfectly acceptably for a lot less if you buy, say, a 5 year old car for £5k and run it until it falls apart. Your maximum depreciation is £5k. You will pay more in maintenance, but not necessarily much more. Even if it is much more, it is likely to not be as much as the depreciation.

So why do people like me buy new?  You know, I am actually not sure it is an easy, straightforward answer. My motoring costs are totally predictable, of course, I have no unexpected maintenance costs, but that is an excuse, not a good reason.

Maybe it boils down to this. I love new cars, and they are my main financial vice. I would never spend £2000 on a trip abroad. I regard £200 to eat out as obscene. Which, of course, it isnt, if that is your thing .

Paul Norman
OrangeTree Development
SoleHeaven

 Yes.

/being concise today

Karen OrangeTree
OrangeTree Development

The UK car market is an interesting one. As is Germany, although very different.

In many countries the car is a utility item. You buy a Renault Twingo new, you never wash it, you get the basic model, you drive it into stuff, you keep it 6 to 10 years, you throw it away.

Here, the has for many years been a huge market for higher specification cars, which, essentially, do the same thing as the low spec ones. Used cars retain better value (although much less than 30 years ago), and we tend to see faster change cycles.

Car manufacturers love the UK market - obviously!

Intriguingly, the government, and the manufacturers, are pushing the green aspect of buying a new, smaller car, and the public and buying it hook line and sinker.

Paul Norman
OrangeTree Development
SoleHeaven

I don't agree - cars are status symbols and too many people want status it has nothing to do with a need for a thriving new car market.

I would happily buy a car for £500 and run it into the ground, the wife however has other ideas and I fear my bank balance will get a lot lower once she goes car shopping    

(edit) forgot to say that I am always calling her a "car snob" in that she will only look at something if it is under 2 years old and the newer the better for her.

Credit-Manager.Net

Jeez, err... how would anyone ever get a used cars, if no new cars were sold? Duhhhh.

At the moment, new car orders are backing up like mad. My customers waiting times (when added together) are now in excess of 25 years, that is people with signed orders... counting from date of proposal, to today.

Nissan Qashqai waiting times for example are well into 2011 now.

If you prefer a slightly scuddy used car, with older safety features, higher maintenance costs, worse mpg and CO2... well, hehe, glad there is a market for those cars :)

If you want a new car, you can lease one for 2 or 3 years that works out cheaper than running the banger. :)

For many business people, their car is simply a tool. I am sure you could get by with a used TV, a used computer, a used phone system too, but if you want a simple consumer tool that works - hard to beat a new one.

I am Ling

LINGsCARS.com
Ling World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

Ling

I am not sure that I would put egotism as a reason for buying new cars for myself. I have just checked. I have purchased 87 cars for myself, of which 32 were brand new.

I am a petrol head. I love cars. Purchasing, and driving, a sub £1000 car would produce no pride issues for me at all. In fact, I rather impulse buy my cars (apart from the Merc - that was more of a deliberate treat!).

I think we are looking at a choice thing.

For me, I would never spend money on an expensive holiday. But I would buy a yacht. I would rather live in a relatively unfashionable place than pay a premium to be in the city centre. But I would buy a new car. And so on.

Paul Norman
OrangeTree Development
SoleHeaven

Different things float different peoples boats. I like cars, they can be both fun to drive and can get from place to place in relative comfort and dryness. But unless I am ever minted in a proper more-money-than-I-can-spend kind of way then I doubt I'll buy a new one ever as I find the depreciation distasteful.

However, I LOVE motorbikes. To the point that the same % level of depreciation is outweighed by the idea of having a machine from new. I'm on my second brand new one. Ownership from new makes them special and mine on a deep level, in a way that second-hand doesn't. I know conciously that it's nonsense. The 18 month old Triumph in my garage is, to all intents and purposes, just the same as an 18 month old triumph that I could buy from someone else. Except, to me, it isn't. Cars just don't have the same effect on me. But they do on some other people, so I can understand it even if I don't share it.

Les, are you a complete nutter?

I was not invented by the manufacturers; they HATE me and continually try to close me down.

If you didn't have new cars, where would the secondhand ones come from?

Top Gear is BBC, it was not invented to sell cars, any more than Ready Steady Cook was invented to sell sausages. Fift Gear was invented to sell advertisement space, not cars.

I sell new cars as cans of beans. It makes no odds to me, and I compare their cost to packets of fags and McDonalds (again hated by the Manus).

Of course a thriving new car market is needed - to supply the country with cars. When supply dries up, (like used and new supply during scrappage), the price goes up like mad. So a good supply is needed to keep costs down and allow people to have transport.

What you gonna do, go on the bus?

Let me know when the drugs wear off :)

I am Ling

LINGsCARS.com
Ling World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

hahahaha I love Ling

Personally? I've never ever had a new car (feel sorry for me now) and i've had nothing but problems with the tin cans piece of tripe that i've driven ever since passing my test.

I want a new car, i'm planning on either leasing (sup Ling) or buying on finance a new car in the next few months. Why? Because i'm a snob? no because I want a new car - I want something that may not break due to age every 10 minutes, something that doesnt smell like a tramps underpants and something that looks nice on the roads. I need to drive, I spend a lot of time in the car and it's important to me to have a reliable runaround that is owned by me.

Done.

Jam, PureJAM and Answer - Telephone Answering from £1 per call
Katie Millman

Ling

same could be said about computers? phones? er anything?

Im not going to buy a brand new Mac as it's snobbish - Instead i'm going to buy a second hand one with 10,000 viruses and bluetack where the keys should be

Jam, PureJAM and Answer - Telephone Answering from £1 per call
Katie Millman

I'm a little confused as to what your point is really Les. Is it that people should buy new cars, or that they shouldn't? Which and why?

I would say, if it means Ms Millman can attend more 4N meetings without any worry and just completely ignore the car until the windscreen washers run out or the rear view mirror needs adjusting, it's just a consumer tool (like buying a new printer you want to just WORK dammit) :) Car will pay for itself, every month I think (but I would say that).

Yeah, the toys are nice, but mainly useless (no one's life is poorer because no parking bleepers), it's the days saved through silly breakdowns, MOTs, messing about getting the wotsit fixed and plus simply being a bit safer.

Nobody needs to spend a fortune, unless you want something silly.

My own car (Audi TT Cab) was just £230/mth+vat and I get half the vat back, so it costs me about £260 inc everything apart from a service for 2 years. How can Les say that is expensive etc etc? Even a 5 year old Fiesta will cost that, after all the MOT rubbish and repairs, tyres and stuff. Plus my TT is faster, nicer, blah blah blah. I get to work every morning with NEVER having to think about anything apart from: roof up or roof down. easy (but I would say that). :)

I am Ling

LINGsCARS.com
Ling World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

 Les, you can't judge the market by a bloody Bugatti. You really are taking too many paracetamol again!

My website - you really open a can of worms here - is so atrocious I move £40m of new cars a year from it, grossing about £400k revenue and employing 9 people. Do you run a business or are you an art critic??? Nit.

People want wheels (because the buses and trains are shit). They want easy, cheap, convenient, safe and (yes) new, and attractive products. Like they want new shoes, not secondhand ones. You can always get secondhand shoes, you know. I sell whatever meets those requirements, and whatever I can get. I lease them like cans of beans without any hype. 

Stop being so grumpy and miserable and mean. You are like grumpy old man, ranting on. If Katie Millman chooses a new Astra (for example) it does not mean she has turned into a consumer-monster (errrr :). 

I would say that it is people who GET ALL UPSET about what new cars others choose to buy, that you should worry about, Les. Mirror in post :)

I am Ling

LINGsCARS.com
Ling World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

Karen

I think a "mute Ling"  button would be nice right now 

Quoting Les ...

Karen

I think a "mute Ling"  button would be nice right now 

Disagree. And is that also a Mute Katie and Danny want as well?

As an aside seems to me that Goya is getting more and more stroppy in terms of threads and posts, not like how it used to be. It's a shame.

Jam, PureJAM and Answer - Telephone Answering from £1 per call
Katie Millman

Quoting Katie ...

Quoting Les ...

Karen

I think a "mute Ling"  button would be nice right now 

Disagree. And is that also a Mute Katie and Danny want as well?

As an aside seems to me that Goya is getting more and more stroppy in terms of threads and posts, not like how it used to be. It's a shame.

 Kate - thats funny, I thought you were setting the standards on here?

It's a bit rough to ask for someone to be silenced just because the argument gets too difficult.

No I barely post in here anymore.

and it's Katie

and honestly Les I think you are one of the rudest people i've ever spoken too online.

Jam, PureJAM and Answer - Telephone Answering from £1 per call
Katie Millman

From my point of view - look at it like this.

From both an employed point of view and to a certain extent if I was self-employed, I have an image to maintain. I do a lot of miles and the company buys new cars for us to drive for 4 years. My customers would expect us to arrive in a decent car I presume and if I arrived in some banger, would that give off the right impression to them? I suppose its like my attire. Some customers wouldn't enetrtain my services should I arrive dishevelled and wearing scuzzy jeans and a t-shirt but would listen to me as I dress professionally. Now the person inside and the service I offer hasn't changed, but the perception from my client has.

So is it my Ego that requires me to wear a suit/shirt/tie and arrive in a nice car or someone elses expectaions?

David McGarry
Robinsons International Removals Ltd

 Katie, the only time you and I have communicated directly is when you PM'd me to apologise for badly misjudging a situation. I believe in response to that I was very polite and gracious and that is the only time you and I have had any communication directly. Beyond that there has been no interaction on either forums.

A good point Mr. David.

As someone who dislikes driving I couldn't care less what I would drive, hell I'd go everywhere on my sons push bike if he let me, but there are times when a little bit of image does come into it, I usually take a bus on these days

Credit-Manager.Net

 Thanks Sean

If I am 100% honest I would rather go places on my bike or on Public Transport. The issue with the transport is that it is so rubbish and generally bobbins and expensive in the UK

David McGarry
Robinsons International Removals Ltd

not the thread to do it and defintely dont want a back and forth with you Les. I find you rude, I have found you rude since you wrote a very inappropriate response to a thread I started. I have found you rude in this thread and so I said it.

Plus the PM I sent wasnt for badly misjuding a situation - It was an apology for discussing you with another 4ner - the result of which meant that you started using your real name instead of a piece of punctuation. I apologised if this conversation had led to any problems.

Let's just agree to disgree and put a line under it.

Jam, PureJAM and Answer - Telephone Answering from £1 per call
Katie Millman

There will be no mute Ling button because she is worth her weight in gold in forum discussion.  There will be no mute Katie button as she is worth her weight in gold in funniness!

Lings website is top dollar awesomeness, it sets out to sell cars and .... it sells cars.  It sets out to get noticed ... it gets noticed.  Whether people think it is pretty or not is so not an issue.  It never is.  Function over pretty every day.  Most of the manufacturer sites are very pretty indeed and totally rubbish because they don't achieve anything at all.

As for buying new cars.  As a car driver, apart from getting from A to B I need two things out of my car, reliability and costs that can be properly budgeted for.  New cars achieve this beautifully.

Karen OrangeTree
OrangeTree Development

Karen, you should consider a Fiat 500...

...mmmmmmmmmppppfffff.

Agree with Les about this:

" I find it extremely hard to express direct speech into words and am probably more open about things than some people would like. However, I am never intentionally rude and I am happy to accept that it might come across that way to some people."

I often have the same prob. Must say I am smiling at all this and have never taken offence. But I have some instant like for Les's (wrong) gut feeling argument and also for the beer-gutsy response from the shrinking violet girlz.

I've just looked at your website again Les ... :) hmmmm. I think you need a content management system, hahhaha. (no offence)

I am Ling

LINGsCARS.com
Ling World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

Mind you, I will say that at least Les has got an opinion.

Which is more than most people, so I forgive him :)

I am Ling

LINGsCARS.com
Ling World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

No I want a mini - and a properly nice one and I only want to spend £100 a month on it because im a tightarse. I fear this may not happen.

Jam, PureJAM and Answer - Telephone Answering from £1 per call
Katie Millman

Funnily enough, I was hoping for a bit of discount on a second hand one

Karen OrangeTree
OrangeTree Development

I tell you what you should look at Kate (mmmmf)

... the Audi A1 (probably arriving early 2011, and the Nissan Juke (same). Both new players in Mini segment. Buth got attitude in different ways.

I am Ling

LINGsCARS.com
Ling World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

Good advice Ling - i've written those down and will take a look later.

oh and if you call me Kate again, i'll come and hit you on the elbow

Jam, PureJAM and Answer - Telephone Answering from £1 per call
Katie Millman

 I have one for sale, as it happens. It doesnt go, of course, but then they dont.

Paul Norman
OrangeTree Development
SoleHeaven

cars are cars, you either like having a new one or you don't.

Gareth Jones | Zodiac Security Ltd | www.zodiacsecurity.co.uk

 

 Exactly! :)

I am Ling

LINGsCARS.com
Ling World Headquarters
Vance Business Park
Gateshead
NE11 9NE

Never had a new car *sniff* and don't know if I ever will have one. Though I would quite like a nice shiny new Honda Civic type R ...

Seriously though I've always had old bangers, I don't think I've ever paid more than about £600 for a car. Some of them ahve been complete dogs (mainly the Fords!) but my little Nissan Sunny was a fabulous car and my current one, a Saab 900s is also lovely in its own quirky way, and really reliable, touch wood.

Actually I wonder if I am the owner of the oldest car on this forum? (Oldest in daily use, rather than having some lovely classic car in the garage!)
Mine is a N reg . ... anyone want to raise (or lower) me that?

Alison Neale
The Proof Fairy

Stuff the typos, I'm off duty here

Because I care less about my four wheels than two, I've only ever actually owned two cars in my life. The rest of the time I've been happy to use the vans provided by my vanmunki jobs (Especially in the good old days when nobody cared about tax or fuel for private use!). One was a mark II Cavalier which was a complete and utter heap that burned oil faster than piper alpha and let the rain in. The other is the 03 Mondeo that I bought a month or two ago as I was leaving vanmunki-ing and they wanted the van back. The mondeo is actually quite pleasant.

Now I'm off to the peak district on the motorbike. Hurrah.

I have only ever had 3 brand new cars in my life - two were bought and one was built by me (although it was car shaped it was really a trike so it is classed as a motorbike).  My first car was a clubman estate bought for £50 and restored by me with Dad's guidance (I am a daddy's girl and happy when there is oil around and engines to tinker with), I eventually sold it for £95 about 5 years' later, my second car was a silver metro bought from my mum who bought it new, I got rid of it after Halfords bent the sump during a service - I part ex-d it for a metro studio 2 bought using factory discount and I kept that for 12 years getting rid in 2001 for my currrent car a Y reg Toyota Yaris. 

Denise
Meredith
Sponsalis

Petrolhead's rock.

I shall not trouble you with the list of my cars here!  Favourite 3? Daimler V8, so comfortable it made you laugh, Merc CLK - current car, so tends to be in the list!, and Alfa 75 3.0 (1989), for its awesome noise, and downright stupidity!

Paul Norman
OrangeTree Development
SoleHeaven

My favourite car was my Pillar box Red Mercedes long wheel based 280SLE registration ELP 15Y which I sold to buy a 4 wheel drive Isuzu Trooper LWB because hey! we started a family and needed a more sensible vehicle. If I could buy that vehicle back today, I probably would but, like all memories its probably better left where it is.

 Yup..stick with the memories. But they were good cars!  I had a Trooper, briefly. It drove better than the Landy, but overall I preferred the Discoveries.

Paul Norman
OrangeTree Development
SoleHeaven

I have never owned a car myself but have bought 3 for the wife.

First car was a Rover.. it was green, I liked it, but it died about 2 weeks after I passed, it must have known that I would have killed it myself.

Then went onto a Ford Focus, my wife liked it and it did plenty of miles without a problem, when we moved to Germany we kept it for about a year before it had some problems so we sold it to a guy in Slovakia who converted it.

We went onto an Opel Zafira so we could fit the kids and all their toys into it for the long journeys we were doing. It was about 9 months old when we got it, we had it for almost 6 years and just sold it for about 35% of what we paid for it.

The wife will start car shopping on Monday.. I will start praying for a lotto win on Saturday.

Credit-Manager.Net