Paul - were you on my Sales & Marketing course yesterday??  I learnt how to market my business successfully by adding value - if people think that they are getting value for money then they are more likely to buy from you, we were also told not to be afraid of giving something away for free that people would normally pay for - this can be done as a limited time offer.

Denise
Meredith
Sponsalis

I feel this most keenly now the team is bigger ... we have a responsibility to more people and this focuses you on providing longevity and firm business foundations.

Karen OrangeTree
OrangeTree Development

Paul/Karen

This is one where Les and I are going to have a courteous, and robust debate!

I spent many years in big business successfully turning businesses away from the profit only motive.

Now let me pause and accept the point that you HAVE to make a profit - hence profit only. But it is very possible to make a profit and sink a company.

The longevity of a company flows from a number of things - one of which is the cumulative pot of money which arises from profit. But in addition there is the momentum of the company - its ability to keep going, fueled by a bank of customers (see 'Building Customer Equity'), the reservoir of good will of its staff who drive the company forward, the broader underlying financial base of the company to carry it through the year when you fail to make a profit.

All these things are important. The motivation to have a company still here, able to pay its staff, in the future, is a big part of what drives me. And of course, I have to make a profit to pay for all that.

Paul Norman
OrangeTree Development
SoleHeaven

Paul, take away profit and you fail your employees and those that depend on you, even your customers. banks and suppliers. 

I will give you my views:

these are two contrasting ideas from "what I know".

First view:
"A business that makes nothing more than money is a poor kind of business".  Henry Ford

The other alternative view is:
"Being profitable is the primary socially responsible action a business has, it is this how people are kept in jobs".  Skeeter

Profit is only earnt by exploiting labour - you can't do this if you ain't employing anyone (not really, unless they're working free that is - Brad does this well, especiailly as we're all here promoting his book without pay - this is how communism and religion both work as business models..!!!!).  Moreover, it's all about "the cause" - causes are great, they tap in to peoples belief systems (i.e. the real you).

I am not "in business", I have an ideal kind of job that gives me a degree of security, that I don't think any employer would give me.  I wouldn't even say I make "profit" per se.  You can use your business to do whatever it is you want to do.

For me freedom, creativity and dignity are important and I choose this at the sacrifice of making tons of money.  I have nothing against tons of money, other than it should be done right, otherwise you may as well go and be a hoar.  Knowing how to make money responsibly is a tough call and to me the measure of someone.  I've met lots of people who have the lot and totally unhappy, some choose do give back for moral justification, others choose to carry on.  I went in to business last year and stepped out quite quickly to return to my ideals.

I've met some right "money machines" and they're not always able to sleep that good and generally end-up pretty arrogant because they get tons of flack - and rightly so, having seen some of the stunts they pull.  Here I'm probably referring to about 30/40 people I know.

I'm no angel, but when it comes to those decisions, I like to think that common sense of right/wrong does act as a moral compass.

Where there is money and people there will be underhandedness.  That I gaurantee. 

I've seen it in every aspect of life and it falls in to need and greed.  People in need generally trample on by those who are greedy.  It ain't pretty.

Skeeter, blogging here: http://www.tweetsbyskeet.com :: Bonus: Small Business Tips

I don't believe Paul ever said you shouldn't aim to make a profit!!!   If anyone thought that, they don't know him very well.

OrangeTree is not only about making a profit for us.  It genuinely isn't.  It is as much about providing valuable solutions and productive relationships for our customers and satisfaction for our team.

Karen OrangeTree
OrangeTree Development

Sales is vanity, Profit is sanity, Cash is reality.

Been through all sorts over the past 15 years. The past 2 years the aim of the day job company was pure and simple, increase turnover regardless of profit or cash. This was simply to aim for market growth and penetration. We all knew (well those of us who actually think) that as employees this meant that times would be tough and there would be no luxury items as the company was going to be squeezed hard. Any and all profit was put straight back into R&D to ensure that this could continue. 

It was a strategy that was dangerous but one that is working. The company got bought by one of the biggest in the world due to its market share and the competitors were blown out of the water.

Profit is important, but there are times when you can forget about it and go in a different direction, as long as it is built into your plans.

For my own company, I don't expect to make a profit for the next year due to my start up costs and the prices I charge. This will change however once I become more established and don't have the same costs each year. To that end I am not concerned at all with any profit situation in the first two years of trading and am more concerned with putting down a footprint.

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